I read this post by "MARIE IN MAINE". Which was talking about when the Mystery Method was on Dr Phil.
I caught the Dr. Phil show yesterday, titled, "Women Beware!"
Dr. Phil asked the audience to rate their approval for the guests, Scott and Nick from the Mystery Method and Ross Jeffries of Speed Seduction fame.
You've probably seen or heard of these outfits: they train men how to approach and pick up women. Dr. Phil asked some pointed questions, but he didn't go far enough in condemning these techniques. In fact, when interviewing two young women on their experience in bars and how they felt about the whole thing, he said:
"Didn't somebody teach y'all how to put your makeup on, how to choose clothes, how to conduct yourself as a lady?" Dr. Phil asks. "Somebody invented the push-up bra for a reason."
Yes, Dr. Phil, somebody did teach us: mass media. Barbie. TV shows. As far as I know, my mother never wore a push-up bra in her life, so it sure wasn't her. For many years, I stuffed myself into pantyhose, tight dresses, wore high heels and yes, a push-up bra, so that I could conform to the vision of society's ideal woman. Now I wear casual clothes, a white cotton bra with no underwires, and if I wear a push-up bra, it's to make a dress or blouse fit properly without it sagging. And frankly, my undergarments are my business.
So by your reasoning, Dr. Phil, if I wear a push-up bra, I am attracting men and being manipulative? That would mean if a man were wearing nice clothes and a tight pair of jeans, he was deliberately being a tease or a come-on artist? Puh-lease! I expect better from you, Dr. Phil. My breasts and my push-up bra do not walk up to men and tell them lies any more than a sock stuffed in a guy's jeans does the same to me. I can't believe you picked up on the old saw "she's wearing something sexy so it must be her fault that I'm attracted to her."
This show was nothing more than advertisement for these guys. Teaching young men confidence? Teaching men how to treat women as objects and manipulate them like trained dogs is more like it. Whether or not they are successful in these endeavors is not the issue: the issue is that it is carrying on the misconception that women are less intelligent than men, we are vulnerable creatures who need to be protected (by whom? All the "good" men like you, Dr. Phil?).
Relationships should be built on trust. If I found out my husband, who is a hypnotherapist and is trained in NLP, by the way, used hypnotic seduction techniques or NLP on me, I'd be more pissed off than a nest of hornets that somebody'd taken a baseball bat to. And you know hornets can be some mean little sonuvabitches when they are bothered.
This is not some Cyrano de Bergerac method of approaching women. For example, Nick from the Mystery Method responds to Ross Jeffries allegations that Mystery Method uses something called "push-pull," to throw a woman off balance:
"We absolutely teach push-pull. That's flirting. If somebody says something that I enjoy, I will reward her for that. If she says something that I don't enjoy, I'll let her know about that... If I'm constantly, no matter what she says, loving everything she does, that's boring."
Nick, lemme tell you something about women: we do like men who like what we do. My husband loves me the way I am, and as a matter of fact, I don't find it boring when he expresses his admiration. Have you ever lived with a verbal abuser, Nick? I have: my last longterm relationship was with a man who found it amusing to put me down one minute, then tell me how beautiful I was and how much he loved me the next. By the time I got out of that relationship, my self-esteem was at an all-time low, and I had to go into therapy for being subjected to the little tricks like you mention. Stop it. Stop teaching men that it is "exciting" to women to be insulted. You are a pretentious chauvinist pig. You make money from preying on men's insecurities with women by teaching them how to prey on women's insecurities. You should be ashamed of yourself. I have a son and if I ever found out he was doing what you're doing, he'd get an earful from me too.
Oh and Ross Jeffries? Father of the sleazeballs. He was there for one sole purpose: to advertise his product. He made light of the fact that his advertising includes how to get laid (no censorship here, Dr. Phil, amazing that you can't say "laid" on TV in this day and age). Jeffries proclaimed it hype and admonished us all not to pay attention to the advertising, it's just a way to get people to notice his product. Oh, so it's false advertising then? Which is it Ross, a product teaching men how to get laid using NLP techniques, or an innocent tool that boosts men's confidence? Guess which one I think it is.
Jeffries also goes on to mention that the women like sex too. Is that like, cows liked to be serviced by bulls? We are there for men's pleasure only and we like it too. How modern of you, Ross. I am finally allowed to like sex after thousands of years, excluding the Victorian Age, of course. But I can't choose whom to have sex with, I have to wait for one of your "seduction masters" to approach me? Why not just round us all up and treat us like the women in The Handmaids Tale? And I loved your "I'm so innocent here, it's all these other guys who are doing the bad stuff" routine. Lies. Total lies. Are you pissed off Ross? Then picture me flipping you the bird and anchor that, you jerk.
Dr. Phil, your show has hit an all-time low here. The segment on the woman getting scammed by a man was what? A tidbit to appease your female audience into thinking you are actually trying to help them? The quality of your show has really taken a turn for the worse lately. I can't believe you sat there in front of your wife and didn't decry these assholes for what they were to their faces. You also gave them a boatload of free advertising.
Dr. Phil, I have seen you tell it like it is to so many people, and I'd like to ask you, why didn't you do it to these guys? You know what NLP is, you know that trust is an important part of establishing relationships, and I'd like to know why on God's green Earth you didn't tell women how to counteract things like NLP and hypnotic seduction. Shame on you, Dr. Phil, for not delving into the reality of this subject further. I challenge you to do a real show instead of a show that jokes about this stuff, and bring on some experts who can tell guys some real confidence-boosting methods instead of teaching them to manipulate and demean women.
MY RESPONSE
My name is Donovan, and I run one of the fastest growing Seduction Community blogs. I was looking for the video of the show. to get it out to my readers, but instead stumbled upon this fine blog.
While I understand where you are coming from in many regards, I want to say this:
"Nick, lemme tell you something about women: we do like men who like what we do."
Marie, I think you're trying to compare fruit with airplanes here. Don't get me wrong, Ross is a sleezeball imo. He reeks of insecurity in business and romance. But on to my point. You're coming at this from a relationship with a loving husband. That is VASTLY different from the dating world and especially different from the first few interactions. These techniques are NOT for relationships, they are for PICK UP. They rarely work after you're in a relationship or heading that way. They are for the first few interactions.
Marie, on this point I agree: Women are not mindless idiots who fall in love and are incapable of choice after. If they are, they need more choice BEFORE HAND and MORE options in their lives and that is what the seduction community tries and helps men accomplish. When you have abundance in your life, you make better choices for long term happiness.
In my 4+ years of documenting the seduction community's rise jnto a somewhat mainstream existence, I've noticed this:
Women are afraid of this because they think they get manipulated. This is simply not happening. If a man improves his skills to be a good salesman, would you say he's wrong because he wants to improve his career by "manipulating" people into buying his products? Or is he simply trying to make opportunities convert that would have anyway, had he been better at what he did?
There are two sides: good and bad. You can use any skills in life in the good way or the bad way.
The good way for a pick up artist is to employ what he learns into finding and attracting women he meets so he finds a lifestyle that brings him and others happiness.
The bad way for a pick up artist would be to employ what he learns into deceiving and manipulating different women into false assumptions about their future/relationship together.
This is NOT what the seduction community is about. You'd probably find more HONEST men in this community than elsewhere. Why? Because they don't promise "relationships" or "promises" to get you into bed. They are PURELY expressing themselves through charisma and personality.
Let me put this out there. When people have options, they are less creepy, have higher self-esteem, and bring those people into their lives not out of desperation but out of enjoyment being around them.
Why do most abuses towards women happen? Psychological issues and/or lack of choice. Now, I'm no doctor so I can't comment on what needs to be done from a medical perspective, so lets move onto the men that have a lack of choice through being awkward or socially shy. When men have greater choice and empowerment they don't have to be with women they don't respect. They want to enrich her life.
In my experience most of the guys that come into the community are REALLY NICE guys. That's their problem. THEY ARE TOO NICE. Women have walked over them, and they end up holding resentment towards them (similar to what women do after a bad relationship). Instead, these men learn how to socially interact and enjoy their time with women through using their personality.
I hope this sheds another perspective. Heavens knows PUAs need ethics, but women are NEVER forced into SLEEPING with a man when he uses some sort of weird MAGIC. Women always have the choice, and when they don't the guy isn't a pick up artist. He's a rapist.
I hope that helps everyone get a better glimpse into this. In all seriousness it's mostly men becoming more interesting, charismatic and accountable.
I kinda rambled huh? =)
It just gets me really frustrated because I know where I was in my dating life, and it wasn't a pretty picture. Desperation breeds extremism. Extremism = Craziness. Hence: male rapists, adulterers, and abusers. If more men CHOSE the woman they were to marry or have a relationship with NOT out of desperation, but out of abundance, don't you think that guy would appreciate HER a hell of a lot more? He gave up all these other women for HER. That would make her feel like a QUEEN. That's what the community is really about. Empowering men and in the process making women happier.
Recommended books (downloadable pdfs):
Bishop - New Alpha Reports The Black Hole Effect
Kurre Ostrom - Massage And The Original Swedish Movements
Tyler Durden - Responses To Leave Us Alone
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